now, the only problem is codework and programing huh?

we better hurry and put a trademark on this idea before some other modder or game company gets it.

It's an interesting idea, but it most likely wouldn't be worth it since most sniping is done at 30-75 feet.

not in some maps. some like hell's harbor require good snipers to stop campers from coming closer. and others require snipers since you really cant accurately use an assault rifle firing bursts and auto to hit someone nearly 300m away. it is possible, but the chances are low compared to a sniper. beside its just a feature to add. its purpose is only to slow down the best snipers around and give other players a chance to actually play the game. i know, most of the time i get killed by a spawncamping sniper, and i know how annoying that feels.

Actually Xeno's idea has as much or more veracity in close proximity sniping; this is where a well revetted sniper can have enormous leverage in a static ambush...

If the sniper has to make the time to focus his scope, and the optics get bumped out of focus if he takes his eye off the aperture and moves around for more then a few seconds, this adds some very realistic and capable means to adding realistic skill to sniping without adding absolutely histrionic amounts of scope vection or "bob"...

I vote an emphatic YES for this idea! Here's how it could be very simply employed on the id Engine:

The scope portal would have five or six 'blur' textures with subtle but different degrees of blur, these would be randomly shuffled with the clear 'focused' texture every time you lost focus (put down your weapon for too long), each texture should take about a fixed second to switch through for a maximum of six seconds to focus your weapons scope, but sometimes less... The there could be a modifier applied to the focus mechinism to make it more or less difficult to focus depending on the map...

Wind and windage would be another nice affect that could be set as a Map var like G_Wind 1,79 where "1" is the force of the wind, and "79" is the cardinal direction it's blowing from. Strong wind would blow long range shots, forcing snipers to pay realistic attention to the direction of the wind based on objects the Level Designer placed on the map, that were 'blown' and their compass...

This is one way a smart Level Designer (and Programmer) can all but eliminate unskilled, and easy sniping on a map, just put no flag or wind sock on the map, and a strong wind -- and the Sniper will be required to find out which way his bullets are drifting by watching where they hit, and using his reticule, compass, etc... A lot of work, but there are more then enough TR Fans more then up to the task, that are absolutely revolted by primitive sniping machinery in most action/casino/arcade realism games...

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what he said.

besides wind direction, long ranged shot are also affected by gravity, the bullett wont fly straight forever, and eventually lose its strength. maybe that could be another added feature to bullet physics.

about the wind direction. you could put slight animation on flags and plantlife that follow the wind direction. then again, the sky is also a good thing to look at for wind. it would be good to put the hi-res skymaps to good use for snipers. it can be programmed to follow a generated wind pattern.

also, part of physics, bullets alo slow down, eventually anyway. and if you shoot it up at near 90 deg, its bound to come back right at you. the bulet shoud do more damage if it is flying downward, being aided by gravity and all, but that normally only makes a diff if the shooter is really high. plus, the volume of the air can also affect the way a bullet does damage, since thicker air mass can slow down a projectile, but only to a slight fraction of diff.

maybe this is alittle to much on physics huh? but real snipers have to deal with these factors, so it might be nice to have it TC:E.

another thing, just for laughs. on some maps, it would be nice snow or leaves fell on the scope and blinded the sniper.

Well the thing about all of this is scale and appropriateness; True Combat: Elite has very short range distances for sniping -- unfortunately most scopes used in that context are fixed focus, wind doesn't have much effect, and bullet drop is not significant...

So, somwhere this is rather pushing the limits depending on what's actually being depicted in game...

well, its only for realism. maybe the balistics is just too much. but gameplay requires a little tweaking anyway, especially for snipers, bieng the topshots in all TCE games

im with you both, but i disagree with bullet physics. that would make the game too realistic and annoying. even aa doesnt have it

I'm not advocating projectile code weapons with real ballistics code here (even though I like the way it plays much more then hit-scan code weapons); what I am advocating is bullet drop and windage on sniper rifles exclusively at really long ranges.

In essence drop and windage is just coded into the sniper scope to shoot low at or beyond a certain range, and have a lateral displacement of "n,r" where "n" is a vector multiplier, and "r" is the vector coordinate.

This would only significantly effect long range shots, I don't believe any current issue TC:E maps even have ranges where these effects would significantly or measurably effect sniping.

The value of having these features besides the added realism is the Sniper equiped with a powerful scope will be literally invisible to any player not equiped with the same scope magnification due to pixelation effects and how games render distance. Most people can easily see and determine the shape of a man at half a kilometer with the naked eye, you can't do that in a game at even 1/4 that distance because a man sized target will be a four pixel blob (depending on the resolution you're running your game at).

I was sort of beside myself with enthusiasm for high power scopes with a focus adjustment, before realizing it was unlikely that TC:E would ever be able to realistically support such optics, the weapon they are mounted on, or a setting where they'd be used.

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if snipers werent hitscan no one would play the sniper class

Bullshit, Red Orchestra has projectile code weapons and that doesn't discourage anyone from sniping; and plenty of people sniped in TrueCombat 0.45 which also had p-code weapons. Early versions of NS:CO also had p-code weapons, and guess what, that's right it didn't discourage anyone from sniping...

But my point is that you can create simple calculated drop and windage effects with hit-scan weapons... There are a dozen or more games that do exactly this and it does just the opposite of discouraging people from sniping; it challenges and encourages them, while making sniping much more difficult and less effective unless you really practice a lot.

Then again TC:E appears to have a rather easily threatened and easily challenged audience; even the suggestion of something new, more realistic, not to mention plenty seem to have serious trouble reading, writing and thinking clearly -- so something as complicated as realistic sniping metrics might ruin thier 'life achievement' investment in sniping in the mod...

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yeah i agree with the lack of range tha the fx on balistics wont even show up. but complicating sniping is probably the only way to give non-onehit-kill players a chance to play fair and square. snipers are normally a threat to a team, but if they are made slower, this would give the game a ore tactical appeal. the snipers in this current version of TCE most of the time dont even work together, but if they have diff shot intervals and have to refocus and realighn their rifles, they are force to take turns with shots and be more of a teamplayer rather than a lone wolf.

Well Xeno, I know you won't like it but I don't think sniper weapons should even appear on maps that don't have snipable distances and missions that realistically require sniper support...

Of course for random spam death match where people like to crowd as many players as possible, on the smallest maps possoible, with the shortest respawn time possible, and spam relentlessly and skillessly --sniper weapons are just 'great'...

I don't like magical thinking or fantasy game design in realism games where you try to shoe horn a size 14 foot into a size 4 shoe. Sniper rifles on CQC urban maps make as much sense as tits on a nun and balls on a preacher...

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